EP 4: Torn Between a “Real Job” and Ministry
Episode 4 | 38 Minutes | Oct 21, 2025
A series about the fears and questions that come with moving for cross-cultural work.
You want to serve cross-culturally—but you also want to keep building your skills, experience, and resume. Is overseas work a career pause, or can it actually push your career forward?
In this episode, we dive into the ‘Ministry is only a Bible study’ myth and look at real roles—from communications to public health to entrepreneurship. If you’ve wondered what you’d actually do overseas (and how it translates back home), this episode is for you.
What You’ll Learn:
Why cross-cultural work isn’t about losing your career—it’s about redirecting it.
How your professional skills (from business to media to public health) can make a tangible impact.
The myths that keep people from going—and what actually happens on the field day-to-day.
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Hey - guys, welcome back.
Thanks for joining in episode four of the Torn Between Podcast.
Today we’re talking about what the heck you would actually do as a missionary.
Right. Yes. That’s it.
That’s the blunt way to put it.
But we’re gonna dive into what it actually means to build a resume —
What does it look like to have a clear job role,
how you can like actually develop your professional skills
doing cross-cultural work and service work.
So, hopefully we can get over some of the misconceptions.
Yes.
What — what a missionary does.
Which I think part of it is, a lot of ‘em are actually kind of true,
but at One Collective, they’re quite different. 📍
Yeah. Alright.
This is — we’ll start with the — I’m torn between…
Yeah.
Yeah. Something where I am now.
And then the idea of cross-cultural service work.
That has been a theme in this series.
Michael’s been torn between which —
which is genuinely true.
Am I playing it up a little bit? Yeah.
But also it is true.
And I have been genuinely learning so much from you guys.
I appreciate that.
So this series has been fun.
That’s awesome.
So here’s the problem that I need your guys’ help with.
I — as I’ve been talking about — considering Spain, right?
But also I have this job where I literally make these podcasts for One Collective,
you know, among the many other things that I do.
And so the thing that is holding me up from the idea of moving abroad is:
I have a pretty clear job role here.
I have clear income.
I have clear skills that I’m developing at One Collective,
and I feel pretty good about them.
Learning CRMs, about management leadership. All these things. In my conversations and thoughts about moving to Spain and doing cross-cultural service work, is that I would go there and I would just run a Bible study or just live with people and be like, oh, how are you today?
Can I evangelize to you? And,
then like our
you know, prince, uh, well I hope that's, matching shirts that also like
Athea
Athea or the Pilgrim house. Like, come join us and meet the love of tv, which is all great and good, but I'm playing some of the misconceptions. Sure.
But,
I actually, my fear though is I would move here and I wouldn't have a real job.
Mm-hmm. It
be a real job. I wouldn't be developing my professional self anymore. And then that would hinder me future if I ever wanted to move back or any, into any other professional field. And, we've talked about this a little bit. I know it's not true, but that still is my fear, right? So how do I get over that fear and
what is
what is
the truth about cross-cultural service work?
Where does that fear come from? Because I'm trying to, I know our teams that work around the world. I know many of our people, a couple hundred people who work around the world with us, they are using their skills.
I'm just curious, where does your fear about that come from? Yeah, I think it comes from the idea that in America I have a pretty good job and I'm a videographer, which has some almost prestige to it sometimes. Like, yeah, I get to travel, I get to make videos pretty cool, I guess. And my fear is that I would move here and my understanding is as a missionary, you just sit down and chat with people.
People,
Or so you'd give up all that you've worked for. I would give up all that I worked for and would then just become a service oriented person. Which is not bad at all. Like people need other people to sit down with their mental love and spend time with them. And we do that in a lot of places in collective, but loving and serving are things that you're less drawn to than photography.
Just to throw it out there.
out there. Yeah. I'm
Not about loving people. No, no. I feel like I have hard skills that I really value and spend time developing and I feel like I would not have the opportunity to use those, even though I think those would be a way I can bless and serve people there. Yeah. And I'm learning and I think trying to learn
like
what would, would look like to use those skills cross culturally.
Well, I think this would be a good time to discuss a few of those myths or misconceptions, that come up and inform your thinking and contribute to those fears that you're having. Let's brainstorm. What are some common myths that people might have when, anticipating starting this process and what could keep them from moving forward?
And what is the actual truth? What's the reality like both with one collective and maybe just in general?
Yeah.
Yeah. So misconception number one, like I just go abroad and I run a Bible study or like an after school program, and I just sit around and like host people or something.
And this might be a deep rabbit trail. So are you guys okay if we really dive in and tear apart the idea of missions work a little bit? The title? Yeah.
Sure. Okay. Every time I've heard a missionary, talk to my church or talk, be like at church camp, they're like, the message oftentimes is there's this number of unreached people in this country or whatever, and they
need
you to
To alize to them. to them.
But also you take it a step further, missionaries I feel like are
What I see feel about them is they ask for people's money and then they go and they just hang out in this other country.
And I'm like, what are you actually doing though? And it doesn't feel like it's necessarily an effective
use
of funds.
And this is coming from you, which is like a more. Like entrepreneurship, business minded person. Yeah. Because I see I'm a little skeptical. Yeah. Very skeptical. Maybe even like where, when I was growing up I was like, oh, I'm all about this. And then I was like, alright, no, let's nuance this a lot more now.
And sometimes I feel like missionaries are a waste of money.
Mm-hmm.
I'm gonna take your side on this question a little bit because it sounds like some of your perceptions are coming from actual data points that you have seen Yeah. And observed and heard. And so you naturally would be in this place today where you're skeptical Yeah.
Somewhat, right? Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
think also historically, as you've seen it presented to you. It may be just a little tiny fraction of the reality of what's actually happening, but the way it's communicated might not have been effective. Mm-hmm. And really rallying up interest and attracting people to the work because not communicating, things that would actually speak to future missionaries or future goers that would resonate with them and get them to want to join.
Yeah.
Yeah. So I think a communication piece and communicating ineffectively actually informs your misconception too Yeah.
percent Yeah.
So years ago I studied accounting and my favorite course was Accounting 1 0 1, which is like the first. Freshman year. I loved it. I loved it. Yeah. But then as the years went on through my major, I didn't like it, but I ended up with an accounting degree, became a CPA and I and my wife and two kids, we went to what used to be Zaire, it's the Democratic Republic of Congo now.
And I was a treasurer at a medical center
In Northeastern Zaire.
Okay.
So I was using a skill that I had learned, disliked, but I had learned, and I was using it for a very specific needed, role at this medical center that had over 100 beds. It was a significant place. Wow.
Wow.
That's what I did.
And I think that, there are numerous examples of people who use their hard skills in mission type work. And service around the world. Yeah. That's just one. Yeah. Would you say this is true about one collective that, we have a lot of open positions on different teams. Would you say those positions are kind of representative of an actual job posting, like requirements, responsibilities and like expectations?
Yes. I would say that, and that's how we encourage our leaders around the world to think of their open opportunities. So the first step for them is evaluating in the community where there might be a need that isn't currently being met. A need that, is strategic for their vision for where this.
Community should be going.
And that yeah, isn't present in the community right now. And that's how one collective can have a deeper impact and get further involved in the ministry there. And so then the need translates to an opportunity of
how
we can promote this, and how we can attract people to this type of role.
And then the opportunity, I think it shaped around the actual applicant that we're in conversation with, that we're talking about
their
unique set of skills, their experiences, their training, their interests and hobbies and passions.
And
take those open roles, those open opportunities, and we combine them with what we know about the applicant.
And then we create a job description that fits both the needs on the field and. The skills and what the person can offer that's coming to one collective. Mm-hmm. I see. That is actually getting at one of my misconceptions, I think. Okay. Which for example, I graduated and I was thinking about going like long transitions
and
so I graduated and then we were chatting, mark, you were my mobilizer.
This was a really conversation between us, but my expectation is somebody like me graduates, you're like, I want to do this thing. And then the, the organization is like, great, another body, where do we want to just throw it up? Instead of being like, no, we actually have a need for your
specific characteristics
and skills and let us strategically place you.
I feel like my misconception is that isn't ever done any strategic element to it. Which is not true. I want collective. Do you feel like. You have a sense of pressure, that you have to make this decision and then stick with this decision for a certain period of time. 'cause I think that's another common myth that you're deciding that you're gonna do missions and that's the only then pathway forward.
And there's no room for change. There's no room to pivot to something different, whether that's in the mission space or outside of the mission space.
Yeah.
Yeah. You can't change your mind. Once you've made that commitment. You're locked in and you're locked in. So life. Do you feel any pressure like that?
Okay.
Okay.
I maybe not exactly that I'm locked into life, but what makes me fear that is the idea that I will join this missions, and then I will have this weird gap in my resume. And then after that, I'll become less 📍 📍 📍 idealOf a hire to an employer. Interesting. And so reintegrating back into the professional space, my expectation is it would be challenging.
So
So in your mind, the professional development stops when you go to the field.
Which is not
True.
I think personal development would happen because you country. Sure. Country and everything. You're gonna learn so much. Yeah. Which is good, but also I'm like, I care about the professional development.
Yeah. Which you guys are saying does happen. It does happen. It doesn't have to be a gap in your resume. It can actually be an asset in your resume. Okay. But you have
international
Tell me about how
how
Absolutely. Both cross-cultural work
can
an asset in my resume. You will be able to present to your prospective employers after returning back home that you have lived in another culture.
You have perhaps learned a different language and spoken that language. You will have interacted with people who are outside of the conventional, demographic from where you're from or from your hometown, whatever.
Yeah.
It just gives you a depth and a breadth of, I realize these are all personal and not so much the professional side.
Yeah. Encouraging my misperception.
Oh wow.
Okay. Because you're saying all you would have to speak to your new employer is personal developments. Again, I'm not hearing that there's professional development in the field. Well, yeah. Okay. So in addition to cultural intelligence, cultural awareness in a global economy, which is actually really important to know how. To connect with people
from
different backgrounds around the world. Yeah. It depends what you'd be doing on the field and if that would further your skills and your professional development.
And so if you chose something and if an organization, like one Collective had an opportunity for you to actually use those hard skills and contribute to the work that a team is doing in a particular community, I think that, you could actually grow in your hard skills depending on Yeah. What it is that you're doing.
So in this example, if you were a videographer, on the field, you might be the only videographer on that team. So you may or may not be mentored by somebody who's an employee of the organization, who's, been doing it for long. Than you, but you'd probably develop content that then would be used in multiple ways throughout the organization.
It could be part of your portfolio going forward.
Yeah.
It could be something where you learn to see things through a different lens. Maybe you collaborate with other videographers from other organizations who are also sharpening their skills. Maybe you'd have a chance to present at conferences in different parts of the world.
Maybe it would just open up new professional doors that you wouldn't even have here because of your location or because of, just the new opportunities you have there. Yeah. No, that's really helpful here, okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna dive into
a
a case study different than the one you just gave me.
Okay. But I wanna get really concrete about this. Yeah. So imagine I just graduated and I got
a
nutritionist degree, and I want to do cross-cultural work. Like,
What
would that look like for me to use that hard skill, on a day-to-day basis with one collective? Yeah. So if you were going to use that skill here in the us maybe you'd have, maybe you'd be affiliated with the practice or maybe you'd have a set of clients and maybe you're helping them with diet or lifestyle changes.
And it's a pretty specific schedule that you maintain and you know what you expect and you know who you're working with. If you're gonna apply that in a community that's developing, that's under-resourced, that doesn't have the same access to healthcare that we do here,
I think then that you're
able
apply that in a way that's really meaningful and life changing to people who may not understand how to.
F properly feed their families. Maybe they don't understand what good nutrition can mean for disease prevention. Maybe they don't understand what maternal nutrition can look like to properly feed a pregnant woman, before they, give birth and nourish the baby. So I think nutrition education is something that is lacking in a lot of parts of the world.
That with proper training and investing in people's growth and development and education, this can actually be a really life changing set of skills that you can apply in a very meaningful way.
Yeah.
Yeah. And in the locations where we work, Michael, our focus is always on people who are more on the margins.
Okay.
And so we're gonna be working with people who don't have. Access to the kinds of healthcare and clean water
Yeah.
healthy food sources and resources that a typical person in the US would have. So a nutritionist in another country working with people who are on the margins, that would be a real useful skill in that setting.
Yeah.
I'm just now remembering actually a story that's really related to this that I think one collector put out right before I joined sometime. And it was about in Ecuador, about them working with the that are on the margins that are
Really in poverty there.
'Cause malnutrition was a huge problem there. Mm-hmm. It's, and actually having somebody there to diagnose that and then recommend, I don't if they're giving food out something.
That.
I remember that being very specific.
Hearing
That from the collective.
So, I mean, healthcare in general, healthcare education, whether that's practicing good hygiene, whether it's about vaccines or prevention of, chronic disease. I think that healthcare education is something that we take for granted here and
maybe
we grow up knowing, and our families have instilled some things in us, but in a lot of parts of the world,
There's a huge lack of access
to that.
Yeah. And so people going in, in the medical field or in a nutrition area, they would be starting at a more elementary level than someone who's working as a nutritionist and a medical doctor or nurse here in the us. And, but it can be, therefore, I think even more transformational. Because it's being done at often at a more preventative level.
Yeah. Than in response to issues and health problems that come up for people. Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's
That's public health. Alright. Another myth that I'm just gonna join a team that has matching t-shirts.
I'm just gonna walk around and evangelize. Okay. This is funny, but I think it also speaks to something true that people have a fear of, or just maybe an assumption of, not fear. An assumption is that you're gonna be doing everything in groups. Yeah. And you're gonna be doing everything together because that's people's experience on short term teams.
Mm-hmm. When they're sent out by their church or their university. Is that, never be alone, never do anything alone. Everything you're gonna be doing is in a group of 10 and with matching T-shirts. Yeah. But in reality,
Doing your own unique role on the field. You have a job and the rest of the team that you're serving with has their own jobs.
In cooperation with other people in the community, maybe people from other organizations, maybe people who are expats, who are living there. A whole variety of people that are linking arms together with a common vision for transformation in the community. And so you're probably gonna be working alone for part of the time.
You're probably gonna be working hand in hand with some team members. For a portion of the week. Given week, you're probably gonna be working with other people outside the team for another part of the week. It's really something that you have to reset your expectations for, that this is my job and I'm operating like this is a
career
and
that I am
An independent person and I'm capable of managing my own time.
That's a skillset that we look for actually in people,
and
something learned and it's not something that people, necessarily are born with and a trait that everyone has. But, that is an expectation that is wrong. It's a myth that people have about missionary work.
And in reality it looks a lot more like you're doing a job and you're living in community with people. Yeah. I have visited, I don't know, maybe 20 or 30 of our teams around the world. Yeah. I have never seen, team t-shirts. I have never seen groups of 10 or 12 huddling together, working around, all working on the same project.
Occasionally. It might be preparing a meal for guests or something. So you all team up to do that. Yeah. But
the myth
is so easily shot out of the water. Yeah. And so next myth.
If I become missionary, I will pretty much be living in poverty. I won't be able to actually build wealth. I won't actually be able to have a decent income, because.
I
should just
fundraise
enough just to be able
to live.
and that this is a sacrifice. So you should live sacrificially.
Exactly. Yeah, I understand how people come to that idea.
I,
think that, that people doing mission work, and I can only speak on behalf of my organization, one collective, I think people doing mission work there, there is a cap to their salary, but that cap is higher than what I think most people looking in might guess.
And, that cap can be raised as well. Yes, it relates to fundraising, which provides the source of that salary and the increasing of a salary. But we don't. Do like poverty missions?
Yeah.
The budgets that we set for our people, they're also not luxurious. But they are generous. I use the word robust. We prepare our people well. And so their budgets include things like savings, retirement, vacation Yeah. And other things. And the worker has influence into what their salary is gonna be. Yeah. I love that.
So that you as a worker can keep giving from your overflow to other important things that you care about, whether that's other workers, whether that's organizations, church based ministries, local church, but building that into your budget makes it intentional that you are actually preparing and planning to give in addition to receiving.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Clearly if you're looking to be a mega millionaire, going the route of
foreign.
mission service is probably not the path you wanna follow. That's evident. But in terms of poverty and having to scrimp and save, that's not the way that we follow. Cool. Yeah. Thanks for that.
It doesn't make for healthy missionaries, I'll just say that. Yeah. If you're living in poverty, if you are worried about how your needs will be met, if that's consuming all of your energy, and it's creating anxiety, then you cannot do your work to your best potential. Yeah.
Wanna mention the idea of internships because I think as people are in college, as people are, gaining experience and learning a new set of skills.
They're wondering how they can use these on the field, maybe in ministry, and a really great way to try that out and 📍 📍 📍 a feel for what long term work could look like is through perhaps a summer internship.
Maybe it's a whole semester, maybe it's looks like a gap year, but an internship type experience where you're joining a long-term team in a community of ours around the world as essentially a temporary teammate. So you're brought into the fold, you're joining all of the team meetings, and you're doing some strategic planning and you're contributing to long-term projects and you're doing it also to build your own skillset.
Yeah. And to learn from others who have been there longer than you and will be there longer than you after you leave. And it's informing
your
future. Two. And so we offer many, many opportunities for people to come get a taste of what work looks like with us. And really make a meaningful contribution.
We wouldn't offer the internship if it didn't play a part in the long term vision.
Yeah.
and so we want people to come experience what that's like with us. And then we, as mobilizers as serving coaches, we develop, even like a longer term relationship with those people where we're seeing them through that experience and then continuing our discussions with them and seeing where the rest of their, university, education takes 'em and where they might end up afterward.
So I think that's a really great way to get
Yeah. More
a really practical example of that is I did an interview
with one Collective
right
where you, like you, you even said this.
like
You were like, Hey, can you go to Bulgaria in South Africa,
make
some videos
We want to tell the stories of those communities. Yeah.
Yeah.
And then help us do that.
And I was like, yeah. So I did that for a summer and I went and I filmed and worked for those teams and got to see the ministry, which is like what really hooked me into one collective. Beautiful. This is ministry done differently and I gotta tell those stories. I came away from it with an awesome portfolio
piece
And also you guys had like a really, I hope, like a valuable Yeah.
Story
Video to share and to use. Yeah. I think our communications director would say that we got that. Yeah. And then at some point, soon after that you were onboarded into the role you're currently in. Yeah. Full time. A full-time position. Yeah. And that wouldn't have happened Yeah.
Without doing that internship.
internship,
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I would encourage all young people to consider an internship if this is on your mind at all.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. For the future
Yeah.
and some, younger people, college students can use a summer experience to check a box for their college requirement. Right. I just spoke yesterday with a Taylor University student who spent six weeks in Masa, Tempe, Nicaragua
Oh,
Oh, yeah.
teaching English in a local school.
Part of what our team does there as a part of her tessel teaching English as a second language, requirement at Taylor University.
awesome.
That's awesome. Yeah. And she wants to go long term. Oh, that's awesome. In some capacity.
Okay.
Okay. This is funny. Two of my siblings have also been in this pipeline. Like my brother went to Ukraine for three months.
Yes. And
yes,
that was a time that he used to develop his skill of becoming a software developer, while he also coworked. Wow. A hard skill. Yeah. He developed that. He taught himself that, but he did that 'cause he took himself, his job there anyway
in a way
was to cowork in the.
and to co
live
with people there. Yes. And also challenge people to speak English.
and
Yes. And that
then
long term, he ended up working for one collection. As a software developer and my sister check that box. Teaching in Bulgaria for summer and now she's there long term. So we've really seen opportunity. So in the practice life, three internships ended up being long-term work with Collective.
And I, heard there are younger siblings in the ranks. Right. Coming up,
I'll connect you. You'll point them in this direction. There have been leaders on the field with one collective who have said to us in mobilization,
Ask your people, what do you love to do? Identify that, come and do it here. Yeah. Now it doesn't play out exactly that way. That's like a blank check that you can't promise, or, but there's something to that, and that is if you have a skill or sometimes even a hobby, something that you are passionate about and you have some experience in doing that, sometimes our teams around the world will have an opening for exactly what you love to do.
Yeah.
We have places where, people use their artistic painting skills, for
for example.
to work with refugees. Yeah. We have, at least one team, maybe more than one, where young people who have musical, acumen abilities,
Mm-hmm.
they write songs and they come, go and sing and they lead worship. I do think that particularly with Gen Z, I just heard about this,
from a
partner organization of ours who over a period of time conducted a survey of a bunch of different generations and what their motivations for service were and also what kept them from moving forward.
And they were able to compare the different generations and their top motivators. And it was really interesting to hear. And for boomers and Gen X, they found themselves a lot more motivated by a particular location in the world and maybe a calling to a people group, and for younger Gen Z applicants.
That is not in even maybe the top five motivators. Interesting.
right?
Instead they're really entirely motivated by pursuing a skills-based
position
And
that's what draws them to maybe a location they've never heard of. Mm-hmm. Maybe a location that they had no knowledge of in the past, and that God is now opening up that opportunity and speaking to them through the role that they were equipped for that then they pursue.
Yeah. So I think it's really interesting revelation that the generations operate differently and we're seeing this kind of trend
Yeah.
with younger people, towards pursuing your area of expertise, pursuing your skills,
and
then that follows the people and the location where you'd be working yeah.
Which has been
absolutely true of me. For sure.
Yeah.
Because I want to use my skills, develop my skills, and the location people, I'm open I will say that fairly common for me is that people will.
Maybe they come, they present with wanting to do something in a certain field, maybe communications or, and then
Yeah,
on the field. So we may have a role description, an opportunity on our website that describes something in the area of communications. But then in communicating with the field leader, sometimes that's where the communication needs to be consistent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Needs to flow with what the
aspiring worker
is interested in. Yeah.
Yeah.
That can be a challenge. And even then, once they get to the field, then you find out what their role is really like and is really involved with.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think communication all along that is really important because people on both sides.
sides
Make assumptions.
Yeah.
And
think that they know what it entails. Mm-hmm. And what life will be like there. And the leader on the field thinks they know what the person is bringing to the team.
Mm-hmm. And what their expectations are. Yeah.
Yeah.
And if it's not talked about, then there's gonna be unmet expectations on both sides. So that's something we encourage in this process is please dive into your expectations with the leader as you're having these conversations, these interviews about your future in this place.
Yeah. Because you will find that you do have expectations, even if you don't realize them yet. Yeah. They're subconscious. But as you bring them to the surface and you intentionally think about it and then discuss it, you're gonna have to come to a compromise and some sort of agreement on what is reality there.
Yeah.
And knowing that before you go is gonna save a lot of hurt. And even then. Yeah. After all of that really good work, you get to the field and you still, both sides will have to have a lot of flexibility because it's just not what you are gonna expect completely. Would you say it's true that you get to, in a way,
make
your role and like figure out what it looks like as you join the team
and
start to do work?
I,
yes.
But
I don't think it's, entirely up to you. I think it's in, in service of the goals of the team. Yeah. And,
The leader sees as the right next step for this team.
Yeah. So
So it is a very fluid dynamic experience.
and
figure It is.
it is.
Is,
There, there are general parameters to the role.
If you're a communications person, you're not an agriculture person. Okay. You're a communications. Okay. You have some general Yeah. But then in ongoing communication, and then once you get to the field and you go, oh, I have never been to this location before. I don't. How do, where do I buy my food?
So you're learning how to live all over again.
Yeah.
And you're starting a new job. Yeah. So you have to have, yes. It is fluid. It involves the personality of the person, it involves the leader and what their expectations are. Just a lot of communication. Yeah. Is so vital. Yeah. That's awesome.
Cool.
Which is true for any job, a marketplace job or working across cultural ministry or any relationship, like a romantic relationship or entering into marriage or absolute one guys all.
Wow. Yeah.
So cool.
cool.
Well
thanks for walking me through this guys and let me Yap. And process this because like genuinely I'm here and this is what I hear a lot about.
So hopefully you guys got some value out of that. And it's clear.
and,
Thanks for running in guys.
thanks Michael.
it.
Thanks,
wonderful being with 📍 you guys. Thank you guys.
for listening to this episode of Torn Between, hopefully this has been helpful for you as you are trying to figure out what role you want to fill. And maybe cross-cultural work or in a marketplace job.
And if you guys want to explore this more and see if there's a rollout win Collective that could fit you, talk to Mark or Carly.
They would love to chat with you
and
help
you figure out as they're helping me figure out what my role could be abroad.
So
📍 Gotcha.
